A Conspiracy Called Tata Sky
Last Friday I bought a Tata Sky set-top box. Today, I returned it to get a complete refund. This is my story of why I did that and what I learned in the process. This isn't a rant, hopefully a bit of education for current and future Tata Sky owners and perhaps even a precursor to change.
I chose Tata Sky over Dish TV because the reviews indicated they have a superior user experience. This seems to be true, as far as interacting with the TV is concerned. Their menus are intuitive and it was easy to grasp all their features. This is true about their website as well, which although ridden with flash, is easier to use compared to Dish.
So why did I still chose to go for a refund? Because of the fundamentally unfair and cleverly restrictive ways in which everything in the service is designed. Tata Sky is great for anyone who only cares about watching TV. But if you refuse to be treated as an idiot who cannot see right from worng and refuse to have your rights trampled, Tata Sky is not for you.
I have three main issues with their service. But first, here's a bit of an introduction, how Tata Sky DTH works:

Issue #1 Hardware Ownership: what am I paying for?
- You don't own the dish, Tata Sky does
- You do own the Set-Top-Box (STB) but it's worthless without the dish
- In fact, if you deactivate tomorrow, they may take away both the dish AND the set-top box
If you are a Tata Sky customer and you wish to stop the service tomorrow, by signing that contract, you have permitted them to take away the set-top box for which you paid in full. Don't believe me? Call up customer support and ask them to read out clause #11.3.
Issue #2 User Privacy: what about my rights?
- They store all your usage information - how you watch your TV, what you watch, for how long and when
- They can profit from that information by selling it to third parties (read advertisers)
- Be prepared to receive lots of very targeted ads (read spam)
Issue #3 Restrictive trade practices: locked away till eternity
- You shall remain locked to receive Tata Sky forever, no Dish TV or another DTH service for you
TRAI, the regulatory authority that monitors DTH in India, is apparently working on the interoperability issue. But so far the players can behave the way they wish until the rules come into being. However, even if they allow inter-connection, it will be of little use with Tata Sky as you will lose the dish if you deactivate and perhaps even the set-top box.
- You shall remain devoid of even Free-To-Air channels if you don't renew subscription on time
- You shall remain locked to the direction in which the dish is positioned
- You shall remain locked to the settings of the set-top-box
- You shall remain locked to the amount you carry in renewal voucher
Not coincidentally, the renewal voucher is the only way to make payment with Tata Sky while Dish TV allows you to pay using several modes of payment.
To sum up all the above, buying Tata Sky digicomp and services was like buying a car which I cannot run on any fuel except the one supplied by the car maker. I must keep buying the fuel from them because if I stop, they can take away my car for which I paid in full!
In US or UK, there's no contract when you sign up for a satellite TV service. The contract only comes in when you get the equipment for free. It's only in India that we are made to sign on these ridiculous terms. What surprised me most in this episode is the utter ignorance about the terms of the contract within Tata Sky itself. The engineer who came for installation said my signature is needed as an authorisation for installation. His team leader I spoke with had no information about the terms. Two senior people in the organisation that the dealer made me speak to prior to refund, also proffered ignorance about these terms and had no convincing answer.
Other things you perhaps didn't know about Tata Sky
- The reception is extremely poor or unavailable during rains. This however, is true about every satellite TV service in the world. Tata Sky makes no mention of it on their website.
- Their toll-free number only works with MTNL / BSNL lines. If you're an Airtel subscriber, you'll have to call an STD number to get customer support. Knowing how long these calls take, the support will end up costing you quite a bit. (You can't go out and call from another phone because you might need to sit next to the TV if they tell you to change some settings)
- In North Delhi, there have been reports that NDPL, also a Tata company, is using force to remove cable connections from NDPL electricity poles causing disruption in the cable infrastructure and forcing cable TV subscribers in 800,000 homes to upgrade to Tata Sky.
- The set-top box that Tata Sky provides has a hidden port to accept PC card but it's been rendered useless since there's no software interface to use it. It's hidden behind a small plate held by two screws at the back.
- They charge you Rs. 1000 when you change a house.
- They will never tell you this but you can watch TV in more than one room with a single set-top box though you'll only be able to watch the same channel on all TVs.
- There is a hidden settings menu in their interface for the technically inclined. Go to Organiser > System Settings > press 0, 1 and <select> button in quick succession. You'll get to DNB settings and other options.
- The Tata Sky set-top box is from Thomson, their remote identical to those you get with SkyTV in UK and the software is from
Open TV, the firm that sells software to Sky TV(apparently, it's from NDS). Apparently, no one has been able to hack Sky TV (at least not publicly) to use the service without paying subscription fees.
What can you do to protest?
- Do not purchase their service. If you must, then refuse to sign the contract and demand they respect your rights.
- Flood their customer care centre asking them questions about the three issues: ownership, privacy and restrictions.
- Tell others to avoid Tata Sky. At least until they revise their terms and change restrictive policies. Another thing to remember is that there are other DTH players like Reliance, Airtel and new technologies such as IPTV that are on the horizon.
UPDATE, Mar-7: It turns out, 1-860-425-6633 is NOT a toll-free number either (though one certainly gets the impression). Another fact I forgot to add first time is that the 1-year guarantee does not cover every part of the equipment and only selected parts. Now someone in comments mentions that there are hidden annual maintenance charges of Rs.500 after the guarantee period and that you can land in serious trouble if you do not pay that.
UPDATE, Mar-7 (2): An anonymous user writing in comments below, made a couple of clarifications on Tata Sky's behalf. One - they can only take away "Tata Sky Hardware" (the dish) not the set-top box which is the consumer's property. As I replied below, this doesn't make any difference because the set-top box is useless without the dish. The dish should be the buyer's property and they should be allowed to receive any service they desire. The fact that Tata Sky doesn't allow this and that non-ownership of dish isn't made explicit prior to the purchase is is clearly a restrictive and unfair trade practice created solely to prevent competition.
Second, apparently, Tata Sky recently changed the clause about monitoring usage and now it's an opt-in feature. Why would anyone opt in to avail this is beyond me. Since it's the Tata Sky engineer who fills-in the contract form, how can the user even learn that such an option exists or ensure that it's not ticked after his signature? I certainly wasn't told about this during my installation. Clearly, the idea of the contract has to go. If a provider wants me to sign up and stay with them for a stipulated period, they should provide all the equipment for free.
By the way, this is now officially the most popular post on this blog. Thanks for all the encouragement, please tell others about this post and link to it from your blogs.
UPDATE, Mar-13: I received a comment elsewhere from an existing Tata Sky user that essentially said: "It isn't as bad as you're making it out to be - look, its working fine." I want to respond to this because I think many Tata Sky users might be feeling this way after reading my review.
I agreed early on in my review that the user experience - quality of broadcast and interaction with the features, is indeed superior. However, there's more to a product or service than the immediate user experience. My review of Tata Sky is more about the way the plan is structured and how it hijacks consumer rights.
There are certain assumptions that constitute what I'd call a "fair purchase" of a product or service. I assume that my following rights (among others) are being respected:
- The right to be explicitly told, prior to the purchase, the product (or product components), and/or service that is being purchased.
- The right to be explicitly told, prior to the purchase, the terms and conditions - in an easy to understand manner - that constitute the transaction.
- The right to be explicitly told, prior to the purchase, any important limitations of the product/service purchased.
- The right to be charged a reasonable price for the product/service and, if there are recurring payments to be made, the right to pay the agreed sum at reasonable intervals rather than in advance without any incentive.
- The right to have my personal information respected and/or the right to decide if I may allow to share it.
- The right to receive incentive/s for allowing to share my personal information if I so decide.
- The right to receive full utility inherent in the nature of the product/service without any restrictions artificially and intentionally imposed.
- The right to receive a refund within a stipulated period if I'm unsatisfied with the product/service.
- The right to exit the service without an added cost and/or the right to decide if I may retain the service for an agreeable period.
- The right to receive an incentive if I decide to retain the service for the agreed period.
UPDATE, Apr-3: Since this post continues to get a lot of attention, I decided to update it with new information I gleaned recently. Although it might seem that Cable TV subscription costs (around Rs.300/mth in metros) are comparable with Tata Sky subscription (Rs.300/mth), yet if you add all the hidden costs of Tata Sky a very different picture emerges. This is particularly true in case of multiple TVs where Tata Sky is over two and a half times more expensive than cable over a five year period.
Five-Year Cost Comparison Between Cable TV (analogue) and Tata Sky
single TV two TVs three TVs
Cable TV Rs.18,240 Rs.18,370 Rs.18,450
Tata Sky* Rs.24,000 Rs.35,500 Rs.47,000
* assuming you don't relocate and your set top box doesn't breakdown after one year. If either of these happen, add additional cost. See the calculation behind this.
_______________________________________
How was this calculated?
The costs in all cases include hardware, installation, subscription and maintenance costs (at today's prices) over a five year period. Basically, Cable TV is so cheap because it costs next to nothing to connect multiple TVs and because it has no maintenance costs. All you need is a coaxial cable splitter and you can connect as many TVs as you want. Since there is no STB so you don't have to worry about maintenance either.
Note that in case of Cable TV, the only installation expense is the cost of coaxial cable you use from the nearest connection to your house. The cable guy might quote a prohibitive amount for this wire but you have the option of getting your own (it's freely available at hardware stores) at a much cheaper price.
Here is a complete breakup of the costs over five year period for three televisions.
Cable TV - three TVs
HARDWARE
Installation Wiring = Rs.8/m x 30m = Rs.240 (would vary)
Coaxial Cable Splitter (three-way) = Rs.50
Wiring for two additional TVs = Rs.8/m x 20m = Rs.160 approx.
SUBSCRIPTION
Five years = Rs. 300 x 60 months = Rs.18,000
MAINTENANCE
Zero maintenance
TOTAL Rs.18,450
________________________________________
Tata Sky - three TVs
HARDWARE
Three set top boxes = Rs.3000 x 3 = Rs.9000
Installation primary = Rs.1000
Installation secondary = Rs.500 x 2 = Rs.1000
SUBSCRIPTION
Five years = (Rs.300+100+100) x 60 months = Rs.30,000
MAINTENANCE
Annual maintenance charges for three STBs after first year = (3 x Rs.500) x 4yrs = Rs.6,000
TOTAL Rs.47,000
________________________________________
Bottom Line: If you use Cable TV for three TVs over a ten year period, you save Rs.57,100. Good enough for a home theater projection system. You also incur zero cost on maintenance, zero cost on relocation, you get a larger collection of channels and more protection against price hike in subscription since you can pressure your cable operator but can't do anything if Tata Sky raises the prices.
UPDATE, Apr-26:
Tata Sky Drops 13 Zee Channels Without Explanation
Sometime around end of March Tata Sky stopped broadcasting 13 Zee channels without giving as much as an explanation over the reason behind the draconian action. Well, this is one gets when one surrenders their rights in favor of "excellent picture quality". As much as we all like to hate our cable operator, we'll have to admit that something like this would never happen with cable TV.
As TS user Sampath noted in comments below: "Tatasky makes a tomtom when it adds channels but is radiantly silent when channels are dropped." Apparently they even removed two Neo Sports channels recently, reducing total number of channels to 91 and not 100 as advertised.
Another user Pramila wrote on April 25: "Even today their site mentions that all these channels are available. This is cheating of the first order."
Those who have studied the TDSAT ruling behind this action say that Tata Sky will now save Rs.42 per consumer. However, they have not reduced subscription charges to pass on these savings even though they are quite prompt in increasing the price when additional costs are incurred by adding new channels.
The channels which have been discontinued by Tata Sky include Zee Classic, Zee Action, Zee Premier, ETC, Zee Music, Zee Sports, 24Ghante, Play TV, Zee Jagran, Zee Smile, and regional channels such as Zee Kannada, Zee Telegu and ETC Punjabi.
UPDATE, Sep-01:
TRAI Issues DTH Regulations: Big Win For Consumers
Over the past six months, this post has reached an estimated 100,000 people (directly and through word-of-mouth) and has received over 300 comments. But today all those who have suffered through the hands of their DTH operator have a chance to rejoice. The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India has just issued DTH guidelines that address almost all the issues raised in this post about six months ago and others identified in the comments.
From December 2007 onwards: DTH providers cannot lock you to use their own hardware - the STBs will now work with all providers. They must provide hardware refunds if the consumer wishes to return it. They must attend complaints of quality within a specified period. Prepayment vouchers must not be only paying mechanism. Providers cannot suddenly cancel any pay channel in a short period and without previous notice. Best of all, you can now choose which channels to watch - you don't have to subscribe to channel bouquet offered by the provider!
This is a major win for all those who have expressed their experiences of poor customer service and deceitful practices of Tata Sky. I'd like to think that this post too made a small contribution in bringing the issues to TRAI's attention. I did contact them several months ago with a copy of this post and comments. Although they were already working on DTH regulation at that time, yet many issues raised in this post were missing from their DTH consultation paper issued in Feb.
These problems have now been addressed. We'll never know if this post made a difference but ultimately what matters is that consumer rights have been upheld and DTH operators brought under control. Tata Sky and other operators can no longer do anything they want making a mockery of consumer rights.
To read more about the regulations, see the following stories:
Hindustan Times: Change DTH operator, keep set top box
Hindustan Times: Come December, order DTH a la carte
Business Standard: Trai directs DTH cos to offer refunds
Rediff: TRAI to bat for DTH customers
UPDATE, Jun-06 2008::
For the latest on issues with Tata Sky, head over to Kunal' blog.
Also note that this page features only about half the comments ("Newer" comments link below is not working). To check the latest comments, click on "Post a Comment" link at the bottom of this page and then click on "Newest".
In other news, today's HT reports that ESPN is taking TataSky to court: Channels off air, ESPN to take Tata Sky to court
P.S. Please keep comments civil. Disagreement is fine but insulting someone is not. Such comments will be promptly removed. Thanks.


422 Comments so far «Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 422 Newer› Newest»
1 more thing tatasky dealer told me is:
after 1 year warranty/free service period i will have to pay Rs. 500 AMC charges else incase of problem every visit will be charged OR if STB gives problem after 1 yr and i am not on AMC then i might have to re-purchase STB!!
Maybe once there are enough users and competition, these companies might go the cell phone company way and reduce prices/terms...
In any case, whats the deal with no reception during rains??? Even I lost reception during that.. what is this.. 1940s??
well,most of these clauses are there even in the dishtv. they will not bother you untill you are using the service. i am using this for last 6-8months i have not had any problems, except few times when the hardware goes nuts and does not function, but gets alright in few minutes. during rain i had no problem last year.
but most important advantage of dth is to get rid of cablewallas and the local power shutdown, strikes which ban the channels, also you have better viewing experience and quality.
but its little expensive but i chose it over cable mans irritation
One more point... the 1860 is not the toll free number for MTNL/BSNL users but is a premium number for which the consumer pays... only 1800 or 1600 #'s are toll free numbers
You're doing a great job by taking the pains to explain in detail about the "conspiracy". Unfortunately, even after being aware, at some point or the other, we will be forced to go in for either Tata Sky or Dish TV. And believe me, both of them have more or less similar contractual terms and conditions.
I see no hope with the new players who plan to enter the market either. They are no different. In-fact, these people operate hand-in-hand and ensure that they all set more-or-less similar terms and offer services at similar prices. A monopoly. That way the consumer has no option, and has to bite his teeth and knowingly take up the services.
Sadly, the ONLY option I see is to STOP WATCHING TV and stick on to DVDs.
A VERY GOOD ARTICLE.MANY OF US SIGN THE CONTRACT WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE TERMS AND END UP IN PROBLEMS.DIST TV TERMS AND PERFORMANCE IS NO BETTER.ALL THE DTH OPERATORS' CALL CENTRES ARE MANNED BY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE SYSTEM. TRAI SHOULD IMMEDIATELY LOOK INTO THE VARIOUS POINTS RAISED IN THE ARTICLE AND PROTECT THE CUSTOMERS AGAINST THESE FELLOWS
Thanks everyone for chipping in and for providing additional info. I'll update the post.
Saad, yes it's indeed ridiculous that after so many years the satellite TV industry does not have a solution to the rains issue. Tata Sky compounds the problem by not telling consumers about this beforehand. They shouldn't be offering their services int he rain infested areas. If you look at their reviews on Mouthshut, lots of people in the North East have taken subscription and are angry that they didn't know about this issue.
Lohit, the cablewallas are beginning to behave themselves now that they are losing customers rapidly! The cable guy at our place has reduced subscription charges, installation charges and has added a new channel that shows prime movie without any ads. This is perhaps the only good thing that has come out of DTH.
PJ, there's no reason to go with them after learning these facts. Cable TV is a pretty good alternative until there's more competition and these guys get their act together.
why donot u write to TRAI about it on there website?
After my experience with VSNL (Tata Indicom Broadband), I swore never to get any Tata product again and I even try not to buy Tata Salt thse days.
I have been bemused with people's opinions on TataSky on MouthShut. It appears to me that most people either love it or hate it -- There is no in between. Also everybody keeps badmouthing the cablewallahs and how we should get out of their clutches.
Surpisingly I am with the most loathed about company and I love it. I am with my cablewallah in Bangalore who runs Hathway Digital Cable. I bought my set top box for Rs. 2,600 and didn't pay a dime for anything else. I pay Rs. 240 a month for digital cable for all Star, Sun, Zee, DD, etc. channels plus a few more (MBC & Dubai One). I run two TV's: one on digital and the other on regular analog which has 30 odd channels, so I have a good deal. I didn't sign any contract. If there is a problem, I shout at my cable guy who is a 10-minute walk away and everything starts working.
I don't have any problem with the rains either. Sometimes when the power in all of Bangalore goes off, I lose the digital cable but that is few and far between.
I know Hathway messed up a lot of people with their Internet connections, but guys you need to seriously look into their digital cable.
Good one! People who faces such problems, think they cant do much on this and keep quite. But you took initiative and explained a lot. Hats off U :)
Re: writing to TRAI, I'm looking at all the options. Another possibility is to file a complaint with MRTP commission.
Under the Monopolistic and Restrictive Trade Practices Act a restrictive trade practice is one that "prevents, distorts or restricts competition in any manner". Tata Sky certainly qualifies for that by locking you into their hardware and then rendering it useless on deactivation.
The good thing about filing a case under MRTP commission is that if your complaint is accepted, they do all the leg work. They'll appoint an advocate who will fight the case in the courts (you will not be required to attend). All you have to do is to write a simple letter and furnish the required documents.
Re: Hathway, I have to agree, IPTV is indeed good value for money.
Thanks, Pradeep, I'm not someone who'll take such things lying down. Glad that other people are also showing such support.
evan dishtv locks its HW. and you cant add channels.
These issues can only be solved if the DTH provider is forced (by the authorities) to sell only the CARD and the customer buys and uses 3rd party HW as is the case worldwide ( other than monopolistic rupert murdoc owned DTH)
Few ppl here have talked abt IPTV. So just wanted to ask if anyone of them have really tried it?
MTNL IPTV now seems to be competitive. 999Rs installation. Their own STB with 100Rs rent. And 199Rs for DD, Star and Sony (total abt 110 channels).
So initial investment is of 999Rs compared to 3900Rs tatasky.
Plus no worries abt STB failure. And monthly 340rs (including tax)
IP based protocol means full flexibility in terms of technology.
Plus obviously no problem incase of rain. Also my tel line has hardly gone down in last 3-4yrs. Broadband is very stable too. So those parts seem stable too.
Plus MTNL is backed by govt. and IOL is backed by Times group (recently they bought Rs 50 million stake in IOL)
I am thinking of IPTV now. DTH is scrapped out of mind.
In the contract, on Page 9, there is a Definitions section. Here, under point no.'mm', the term Tata Sky Hardware is clearly defined as those items which have not been paid for..here the Digicomp is not mentioned. The clause 11.3 specified Tata Sky hardware, not just Hardware, that means no one can take the Digicomp away from you upon deactivation. Read carefully- it says Tata Sky can taka away all the 'Tata Sky Hardware' away, not just 'hardware'
In UK, you need to sign a contract for one year minimum on subscription, and while the Box is free, the monthly charges they pay are much higher. Also, there the Govt. does not have the 'must-share' clasue which we do have in India- so if you want to watch a particular match in Uk, sometimes you wont have a choice but to get a particular sat TV service. But in India, every program/ channel must offer itself to all platforms (DTH/ Cable etc etc) so thats good for us.
3. All consumer durables have an AMC- what is so strange about that? How can any comapny keep on providing the warranty/ service free of cost to every one who bust up their hardware for whatever reason? Of course dealer wil ltry to scare you and sell the AMC to you but no one is forcing to take it -- I will wait and watch for one year
4. Privacy: I had brought up the matter as well and was told that the clause has been changed based on consumer feedback. They have emailed me the clause which appears on the contract now (although there may be some old stock still in the market) - so now basically it is opt-in. Also, they cannot track what channels you watch etc- it is not technically possible. There is only one package right now and everyone has it. However, the caluse does state below that they can share 'group viewing patterns' and not individual viewing patterns. They can not profit from selling your information unless you allow them to- so please dont forget to tick the 'no' box in the contract
"Tata Sky values Subscribers privacy. The personal data provided by you in the Contract Form will remain secure and will be used only by Tata Sky to make contact with you for relevant information about our products, services and offers. We may use the data provided by you in the Subscriber Data Card to make partner offers to you. However If you prefer not to receive any such communication, please use the opt-out check box in the Subscriber Data Card to confirm your choice. We may use or share group viewing patterns of our Subscriber base with government agencies, if required by law or for the purposes of product development, research, strategic, financial or other business decisions. "
5. renewal vouchers are also available in Rs.260 denomination...also I believe very soon they will introduce 'any amount pay' where you can choose to top up only how much you want without buying a recharge voucher...thats obvious, they cant survive with a rigid single method, but they just started a few months back so lets give them a chance
I have found their customer service quite polite and responsive and dont think they are out to fleece every one. Tata has done lot of good for this country too and one can not overlook that fact. In fact their pricing is absolutely transparent, and when they say something is 300, its inclusive of everything unlike Dish who never ads the taxes and you ALWAYS pay more than what their ads have stated.
Still, to each his own and recently I read in a newspaper by Tata Sky person only- that the market is big enough for each consumer to choose what he prefers- whether its cable or DTH or IPTV or whatever...so we can all make informed choices and stick with whatever works for us.
Regarding my earlier note on Hathway, I am not sure what I have but I don't think it is Internet Protocol TV or IPTV.
For more details -->
http://www.hathway.com/dctv/setbox.htm
I am not paying Hathway but the cablewallah and I hope it remains that way.
Talking of conflict of interest, how more conflicting can it get when you have a Minister of Communications (Dayanidhi Maran) whose brother runs the biggest TV conglomerate in South India (SunTV). His party (DMK) even offered free TV's during this election no doubt to boost TRP's of Sun TV.
RE: the previous anonymous comment, iIt'd help if you identify yourself. Nevertheless, let me reply to each point:
1. Hardware: What good is a digicomp without the dish and the digicard? You haven't addressed the more important point that Tata Sky doesn't reveal that you don't own complete hardware. The fact that they own the dish has been designed to prevent you from using it with another service.
2. UK: You said it yourself, with a contract the equipment is free. Naturally, with the higher standards of living the monthly charges will be higher.
3. AMC: point well taken. This was only added to the post later. I'd like you to reply to main three points I've highlighted. You haven't replied to the fact that the guarantee doesn't cover all components.
4. Privacy: Most of the times the user doesn't even get to read the contract. I was only asked for my signature and the engineer filled up the rest of the form himself. I wasn't even given the chance to look at the options until I specifically asked for it. As I mentioned, I was told that the contract is only to give them permission for installation!
So if Tata Sky has changed this clause, it's great but it's not correct to state that they don't know what channels we are watching. I was specifically told by their head of service over the phone that it's normal to keep that data and they cannot avoid it.
5. Renewal voucher: The retailer I dealt with didn't mention 260 voucher but again it doesn't help if your subscription is Rs300. This is a flat rate, there are no other options so why doesn't Tata Sky simply give vouchers of 300, 600 and so on??? Because they'd like user to keep the extra cash for their premium services and for the interest they generate when unused.
Customer service is indeed polite and helpful but that's like putting lipstick on a pig.
If the all the terms of the plan are designed to rob you of your rights and lock you into the particular service then how does polite customer service help?
amazing work dude
even i got the impression that 1860 425 was a toll free number !!!!!!!!
Manu,
Hats off to you for taking the time and effort to blog this. And the amount of research you would have done is evident from the post itself.
You are a customer they should feature in the "Jago grahak jago" campaign.
Imagine what my reaction would be when i hear the "isko laga dala to life jingalala" jingle again.
Heheh. Thanks Manik! You make me want to read the post again. =)
Thanks, I got here from mouthshut.. I was thinking of going for Tatasky, and I'm glad I read this first!Good work
A great review. After a long time I have read a useful, mature informative review. I had written a email to their customer care & they had replied (after a gap of 15 days) to many queries I had. U have filled in many gaps thanx J
Very well written. I have forwarded the blog link to other apartment owners in my building.
I had also informed NDTV Profit channel a few months back about the privacy issue. As for myself, I was able to 'extract' a letter from tata sky on privacy protection. The letter was a bit vague but will do for now.
Vivek Deveshwar
Thank you Vivek. I should have mentioned in the post that I first learnt about their contract from your review on Mouthshut. I'm not sure if I'd have taken the time to read through everything had I not seen your review.
Good Work Friends, after knowing all these facts no body should go for TATA SKY.
Thanks for a valuable information.
Great Article. Although most of us will still have to opt between Dish TV & Tata Sky (no other service being available in B class cities), this article helps to take a conscious decision, knowing fully what is in store.
Hi, Guys ,
DTH:
I also like to point out we are made to pay Service Providers Packages,
Like if a News Package from any DTH vendor will force me all the News Channels and charge me a hefty fee, while Say , I just wanted only CNBC, NDTV and Some regional channels of Kannada Then I am the Big Looser Other News Channel Bundeled will be getting free revenue from Advertisers by showing the number of customer they have signed in , while they may be all bakwas channels with no viewer ship at all.
It happens same in Movie Package and Children Channels Which is unfair Practice. We should have the right to select individual channels and individual channel should have a pricing of its own .We will decide on which one to buy on their pricing.
CAS:
I heard that is possible in CAS system (Bangalore doesn’t have CAS) where you will be paying a fixed Rs 5.00 per channel and you can select any channel of your wish and make your own package+ Free Channel Package. This is good.
We should ask TRAI to make it same in case of DTH and IPTV, Given a Choice I will go for IPTV than a DTH
IPTV:
As IPTV is flexible and I will be paying one bill of telephone and IPTV. I am waiting for the competition to come in , while I heard BSNL has started IPTV , but they haven’t advertised it properly.
This also offers me two-way communication’s without SMS, while I pay in case of DTH in SMS or the Non Toll Free Number as mentioned in this Blog.
I get the flexibilty of browseing the Internet and See the un-limited movie offered by Websites directly on my TV (Provided the TV supports this feature with internal memory)
Days are not so far to such expriences. This can be possible if you get a good Triple Paly box from Telco’s.(May be at 999.00 itself with compitation)
Cable-walla:
I will wait until similar IPTV offer come from AIRTEL , Reliance and other Telco's, as my cable-walla is still dear to me and not causing any trouble.
Thanks to the Good Post Manu.
Do appeal for Monopolistic and Restrictive Trade Practices Act we will support you.
Regards
Satish K
Its nice to know that i am not alone,
Dukh Batne se Kam Hota Hai,
but i guess & i am hopefull, with more competition things will only get better
it happened with mobile service in India,
till such time DD direct seems to be the only option
or is it
Sabir
One important point about us being made a fool of by being made to PAY to watch ads is delt with here..h++p://www.vinuthomas.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=6299.html do have a read and pls add ur comments
Satish - Very good point about bundling of channels. We should certainly be allowed to access the choice of channels we want to watch rather than the range of channels the provider wants us to see. Indeed, CAS lets you do precisely that.
Ravindra, you do have a choice - the cablewalla. I just had them install it at my home this morning and unlike a year or so ago, there is no installation fee anymore. I was only charged for the amount of coaxial cable which cost me half than originally quoted by them.
Unlike the big companies, you can bargain hard with these guys. With the DTH threat hanging above them, the cablewalas are more than willing to please you than ever before. Their subscription charges have reduced as well and they recently introduced a new channel offering new movies *without* any ads or breaks.
When Tatsky marketing guys were giving the demo, they were saying that the monthly rental for tasky is Rs200. Then I asked them , since I will subscribe to tasky and you may do monopoly, you may increase the price. Then they answered No, we are controlled by TRAI and since by Jan 2007, TRAI is enforcing to reduce the cost per channel, you will definitely get in less price, But Now Tatasky customer care informed me that , you enjoyed the introductory offer of Rs200 rental. Now your rental is Rs300/-
Dear Mr. Manu,
Without your permission, I have shared your link with my entire office. All 300 employees. I do not know of a sane person who will not do the same. No malice to Tata, but its people like you who leverage the power of the internet to allow us to make informed decisions/ choices.
Thank you again. I agree with the post that says you need to be a part of the jago grakah campaign.
I need your help on a decision myself.
Thanks to your post and the subsequent responses, DTH is out - I am considering the local cable operators Set top box - This i Seven Star Cable - Offer is 1500 + 2x500pm installments and 3mths free cable +300pm thereafter. He says all channels
He allowed me to keep the box for two days to test it out - The clarity was impeccable.
Like a post above said, I will just have to call him up24/7 local call and get him hopping home to fix any issue.
What should I do?
Thanks for sharing this post. I'm glad you found it useful.
The cable set-top box offer sounds good at Rs.2500 for the STB and Rs.300 as subscription. Just make sure of a few of things: One, confirm that all your favorite channels are included and two, ensure that there are no hidden charges. You need to ask him what happens in case the STB breaks down, whether it will work with other services in case you move and what is the certainty that the subscription charges wouldn't be increased. If you feel satisfied with the responses then please go ahead.
Recently a consultation paper on DTH has been released on www.trai.gov.in Just have a look at it.
Thanks Vinod, that's a very timely pointer. I'm taking printout of the consultation paper. TRAI has asked for feedback from all "stakeholders" and I'm certainly going to respond as a consumer of DTH services. I will post my response on the blog in coming days.
I think Article Writers of News Paper are taking cues from our Blog , as you see today’s Article from one such Paper , it points to yesterdays mornings discussion we had posted, thanks to them they have done research and added before going to mass.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/25131.html
Satish, that's most likely a co-incidence. If the journalist who wrote the Indian Express story
had seen this blog, he would have certainly pointed out the other more serious issues of hardware ownership and restrictions.
A very well written article I must say. Been a 'TattaSky' subscriber for 6 months now. At first the service was horrible...had my tattas in my mouth while watching TV...the quality was horrendous, with constant picture freezes. Realized that the Thomson boxes they provided had this flaw whereas the Humax boxes didn't. Had to threaten them that I will withdraw my subscription if they don't rectify. They didn't oblige until I sent a rant to Mr. Kaushik. Now the picture does not freeze.
I stay in Shillong. We have a pretty heavy monsoon season here. At first they gave me a 60cm dish. The picture would conk off at the slightest drop of rain. However, they changed the dish to a 90 (or maybe its a 120cm) dish when I used to complain a lot about the picture freezes. With the old dish, I could manually get the picture to vanish by pouring a glass of water on the dish. Now with the bigger dish, the picture did not freeze the last time there was some torrential rain. I mentioned this so that people know what to do. However, I did come across the Sky users forums which does have a few pictures of the installation done there. You will notice that the Sky UK provides a mesh dish which is what we should also be provided. In the UK as per the forums, there is no loss of reception even in the most torrential rains. So why can TattaSky provide the same dish here is beyond me. Moreover, they will save money as the mesh dish will use less metal.
Overall my experiences with the service has been a mixed bag. I was with a cable walla who had a monopoly here and I am happy that I am not with them anymore. I have not tried DishTV so cannot comment but with what I have heard, in SHillong, DishTV sucks as they don't have any installers here and the subscriber is required to dish out 1000-1500 extra to get it done or do it themselves. With TattaSky atleast this is not there. Rest all depends on how ones experience has been with the cable walla.
That's another very useful comment. Thanks for sharing! This will help me in drafting my response to "Quality of Service" issues in TRAI consultation paper on DTH.
" Manu Sharma said...
That's another very useful comment. Thanks for sharing! This will help me in drafting my response to "Quality of Service" issues in TRAI consultation paper on DTH. "
Please add this also in your response.......
Commercial interoperability, proposed by TRAI, is only an EYEWASH. Technical interoperability is the only way to give consumers freedonm (just like we are able to change sim cards on gsm).
The providers should only provide smart cards. The subscribers should be free to buy 3rd party hardware and have the freedom to switch operators. Today, that cant be done and the subscriber is saddled with a STB which is nothing more than an expensive paperweight/doorstopper if he wants to switch providers.
"The providers should only provide smart cards. The subscribers should be free to buy 3rd party hardware and have the freedom to switch operators. Today, that cant be done and the subscriber is saddled with a STB which is nothing more than an expensive paperweight/doorstopper if he wants to switch providers."
That could be an option but another possibility is the "buyback scheme" proposed by TRAI in which the user can return the STB to the provider for a refund (adjusted for depreciation).
This seems like a better alternative because if you buy the STB from the market, you can't get a refund (though you can certainly sell it off) in case you want to switch to a completely different technology such as IPTV or CAS.
What do you think?
Ok I just realised that the buyback scheme I described is "commercial interoperability." Why do you think it's an eyewash?
"
Manu Sharma said...
Ok I just realised that the buyback scheme I described is "commercial interoperability." Why do you think it's an eyewash? "
It is an eyewash because getting a REFUND would be NEARLY impossible. The DTH providers would impose stringent conditions where in a they may claim that the STB is DAMAGED (which you cant prove otherwise) or they may take an eternity "processing" your refund. There is also a 'depreciation' value attached to these operator provided STBs.
One more thing, these boxes are of the most inferior quality and may fail as soon as the warranty expires , may be before as many ppl have experienced.
SO, when you buy a 3rd party STB u know what u get.
This seems to be an amazing & truly valuable comments/discussion.
I was thinking of going in for TataSky when researching on its service I hit this blog post.
Going by the discussion I feel I should defer my decision to go for DTH at this moment.
nice article.... but somehow tata calls for trust... they won't do that bad things mentioned here
Thank you, Rahul. That's a wise decision considering the choices available now.
Pegasus, I was of the same opinion about the Tata brand until recently. The recent SEZ controversy, my firsthand experience with Tata Sky and what I've read about Tata Indicom Broadband has made me change my opinion about the company.
Hey Manu thanks for providing such a useful information about Tata Sky. I was planning to go for Tata Sky but after reading your comments I have decided to stick to Cablewalla. Probably I would think of going for Digital Cable provided by Hathway seems to be good option at this moment.
Pawan, I'm glad you found it useful. Most people have responded with shock and surprise over these revelations. I was surprised myself when I learned about them. The media obviously hasn't done its job of telling us of these issues.
I agree to the point that the rules in DTH segment needs to be similar to Telecom. Every subscriber should have the choice of choosing the service provider. That will reduce a lot of clauses & complexity that are currently imposed on subscribers. However, it seems that curently entry barrier in this segment is high so the viewers have less choice. For the last 3-4 years only two private service provider manage to enter. I don't know how much time Reliance, Bharti & others will take. Only then the situation become more clear.
DTH expansion has been delayed partly because of the loss of INSAT 4C in July last year. Now that INSAT 4B has been launched successfully into orbit, DTH services -- DD Direct Plus and SunTV in particular -- are expected to get a boost. However, Reliance Bluemagic, Bharti and others will have to wait for transponder space on subsequent INSAT satellites.
This above is from a story in today's HT.
But DTH is not the end-all in TV. IPTV is getting launched and then there's govt regulated conditional access system (CAS) which is on a test run and which provides just as good a picture quality as DTH.
Yet another interesting option is streaming TV directly through the internet on to your PC without any hardware. Joost has been getting a lot of press lately mainly because it's launched by a team that has made two highly successful services in the past - Skype and Kazaa.
Joost doesn't feature Indian channels yet but they have said that they plan to add international channels to their line-up in the near future. It shouldn't be too difficult to stream the content from the computer to the TV using Apple TV kind of equipment. Best thing about Joost I that it's free.
So, there's not really a reason to keep waiting for DTH. =)
Dear Friends,
Thanks a lot for the info. you shared via this blog. After reading this I have cancelled the idea of buying Tata Sky.( I already have heard about lots of complaints about the same.) Unlike Tata Sky,Dish TV at least makes you make the payment in multiple forms including cheques,ITZ cards etc. Finally,can someone let me know when Reliance Blue will hit the markets ? Thank you. Regards,
Parimal
let the tata sky be in sky only!!!lets be peaceful and down to earth.manu u have done a greatjob,keep up the goodwork buddy.
Current demand for transponders on satellite for DTH is around 300 while INSAT 4B only managed to add 24. I think India needs to aggressively push more satellites if more players are to enter in this segment. Regularatory approval process also need to be quick. With every successful satellite launch, a new player will make foray into market which by current pace is woefully slow. Also ISRO's dependency on Arianespace (France)on lauching it's satellites delays the launch process.
Now DISHTV has blocked access to FREE (DD DTH channels ) to those whose subd have expired. This is ILLEGAL on their part.
This is exactly why DTH operators should be allowed to PROVIDE ONLY the SMARTCARDS and not the HW.
THE HW SHOULD BE 3rd PARTY. ONLY then will competition take off and QUALITY service be provider (Remember GSM MOBILE TELEPHONY where only SIM CARDS are sold and HANDSETS are 3rd party, customer owned?)
Hi! Thanks a ton for this review.
I'm Glad i read your blog and Mouth shut review. I was hours away from buying Tatasky. Is there a solution to watch Star sports coz i'm a f1 fan and we dont get star sports in our town for some reason.
RE: Watching Star Sports without cable, you can try TVU player which is a streaming TV service over the internet. They have ESPN too.
TVU Player
It does require a pretty fast internet connection though. Over 300 kbps at the very least.
I agree to most of the points made in this blog. We must thank Mr. Manu Sharma for his useful and valid post, and for the awareness and interest he has generated. Good work.
1. Interoperability is an important requirement. This will happen only after the initial dust settled down, the technology matures and TRAI steps in. You may remember the Reliance-cdma-mobile saga when Reliance entered the arena. It took a couple of years to get out of this buy-from reliance mode. Even now you have to forgo the number when you switch the operator.
2. Cable tv in most of the areas is operating in the grey market and the charges levied varied widely- from rs. 100 pm to over 400 pm. Many did not disclose their subscriber base, used public areas - land/trenches/lamp posts/buildings to criss cross cables without paying usage charges to any one (bribes excepted). CAS has changed this scenario but only in metros. Details are still not available on precise customer base, and the actual monthly charges paid by users who have opted for selective paid channels. Will it be less than rs. 250 pm? What about non metros and towns which are still under the grip of cablewallahs?
3. TataSky should have highlighted the issue of shifting of house/antenna at the time of purchase, because this is the most important issue for the employed lot who have to change residences often, even two times a year. I think DTH operator (both Starsky and Dishtv) are yet to recover from the smuggling of sets to middle east, pay the subscription in Indian rupees(far less than what they have to pay there). But still dismantling and installation charges have to be borne either by Tatasky or the customer. Subsidizing or waiving will be decided by competition and market forces.
I was paying 325 for the cable service (poor picture,sound quality, frequent disruptions in service, only 2 regional-tamil channels, min. 10 calls per month for complaints). I must say I am extremely happy with the TataSky package; no complaints till date.
IPTV launch by MTNL/BSNL is a very limited; you must have the infrastructure - landline/internet connection and not much choice in software. My experience with BSNL internet is w